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The pictures speak for themselves, and as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words.
Still unsure? Check out Shopping Cart Disco to see the story from someone else, as well as a discussion about the ethics of photosourcing.
Friday, January 16, 2009
Just a photosourcing mishap?
Shortly after the blog on boots posted earlier, inVDaily staff was contacted by a woman who had major concerns about content theft, but had been unsure of how to make her findings known. She sent several pictures. This woman is not involved with inV and we will protect her identity.
The pictures speak for themselves, and as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words.
Still unsure? Check out Shopping Cart Disco to see the story from someone else, as well as a discussion about the ethics of photosourcing.
The pictures speak for themselves, and as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words.
Still unsure? Check out Shopping Cart Disco to see the story from someone else, as well as a discussion about the ethics of photosourcing.
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79 comments:
The similarity of design (neck style, open back) seems to imply more than just a photosourcing mishap.
...how come they can't learn to photosource hair. I'm still laughing at all their hair.
Just another example of the ethics behind Muism. Many designers have been attacked by Icemoloco and Migi for content theft and they are doing it themselves. They paid for a name not by quality of work. They have fooled many people into thinking their designs are original and better than everyone. Muism is low end for a steep price.
When I asked Migi she claimed they never photosorced clothing.
[4:07] Muism: it is like naughty send ppl to told me i rip their hair few month ago, or is like Fnky told savvy avvy "you want to be Fnky clone?"
[4:07] Maddox: desingers are the only ones who can know when something is copied
[4:08] Muism: just to be honest there is so many prim work on shoes i really like, and maybe i should stop thinking how to make it, just blind copy and then change the texture, this way i can be alot faster
[4:09] Maddox: of course that is copying
[4:28] Muism: migi dont even make dresses becourse there is other people are doing it, maybe it is time for muism to take on all the area we didnt get into before. and stop trying to be smart and spending time to coming out with someting unique. and the rule is just dont copy prim by prim just copy the shape and applying our own textures
[4:31] Maddox : I do not know what to say Ice
[4:31] Maddox: I will support you in whatever you do you know that
LIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIESLIES
... Thanks Sp (interesting). Their hair doesn't even compare to naughty. What's he going to say next Armidi called?
That is freaking hilarious!! I mean we all draw from RL to make things in SL, that is a given. But we should strive to bring new things into SL not just borrow from things already there. How lame.
ok I don't make clothes but come on dude search a little harder in google before ripping off a fellow creator.
SP said...
[4:28] Muism: migi dont even make dresses becourse there is other people are doing it, maybe it is time for muism to take on all the area we didnt get into before. and stop trying to be smart and spending time to coming out with someting unique.
Rolling all over the floor laughing.I love that other blogs are seeing this coming out of the Muism people. People stand up for the ethics in sl. Muism has none.
Well, it's certainly nice to see that Migi created a box in Jan 2008.
and it's certainly nice Maddox supports content theft if Muism does it. Muism sucks.
Hasnt Bianca already been found guilty of copying other designers in sl?
She has been exposed a few times I think.
You guys mean well by exposing this, but watch it doesn snap back in your faces.
I mean, come on didnt you notice that they call her Bianca Fulton on the shopping cart disco blog?
BTW That top isnt even for sale in her store.Just be careful you arent getting set up.
The top is for sale in her store. It's in the back.
Fuck Muism
Interesting to read the views on another website about this. Obviously Muism has quite a track record when it comes to making overpriced copies, and it's raised a fair number of comments here and about.
Good story, good link, bad bad Muism.
for more discussion: http://www.plurk.com/p/d8rt2
Icemocolo bitches everyone steals his work. How can anyone steel his work when he steals other work in rl and sl? Thes people are messed in the head. Muism is a noob shop.
Ouch! I think I would be more comfortable giving my hard earned cash to beautiful shops like in the inV Top 10 Fashion Stores a few stories down. My impression of Muism is as "borrowers" with shoddy manufacture and high prices? Here today gone tomorrow, and gone tomorrow with my cash...not!
No No NO Migi Voom. I am a friend of Ice and he sends me free clothes but honestly I wouldn't buy them if I had too.
When I tp'd in and looked at the prices I tp'd out. I'll never be back. Go to it noobies.
wow Muism gets bashed over photosourcing while Kal Rau and Redgrave sit as advertisers on the same blog.
Phleeese!
Trying to get attention like SCD is pathetic.
Maybe it is better time spent creating Ammon then trying to get readership by bashing content creators.
I wonder if any of the comments that do not suit your agenda ever get published?
Get a life it is all I say. Only faggot fools that your hang around can not see you for an idiot that you are. But we do!
I'd suspect many objects and clothing in SL break various laws etc., there's a healthy discussion on the Shopping Cart link you provided about ethics and legal framework, and how they relate to Muism. A lot of fingers are being pointed at Muism, discussion is widespread and seems specifically centered on Muism. There is an old saying, 'No smoke without fire', and it leads me to believe a number of SL residents consider there to be real issues at that location.
...do u think calling me faggot upsets me. LOL try again. It just shows the type of person you are. I'm gay (faggot) whatever and I wouldn't want to be any other way. I'm proud of who I am. :)))
Well, seems that answers that. Yes, this blog posts comments that don't agree. We even post ones from homophobic garbage that doesn't have the balls to use their name. This faggot for one is glad to know that you obviously must have a little fag in ya...after all, you seem to love reading what us fags have to say :P
Resorting to name-calling because you have nothing intelligent to say doesn't really make you look good--especially on a very gay friendly blog...
The issue here is the similarity to Bianca's blouse, and an opportunity to discuss photosourcing. Legality and ethics are being discussed rationally on SCD.
Shame Shame on Muism.
I thought he or she was doing almost well until I saw we were all being called "faggot fools".
I am neither a "faggot" nor a "fool". Made me shrug and switched me off from whatever he or she was trying to say (or grunt).
Go wash your mouth out.
Who cares! Either way its still ugly... lol. Who would buy either one to begin with? Trash. Pure Trash.
We all know where that came from . Muism isn't talent. They can't even photsource well. If I am going to spend 3 dollars on a shirt it should be original. Over priced and shotty work. The prim clothes they do are a joke.
I bet Clyde Saunders shoplifts at Muism, lol. :P
My impression of Muism is as "borrowers" with shoddy manufacture and high prices? by Shoe Fetish
____________________
/me nods
The people make the designer. What happened with Muism is they tried making people make them for them not the clothing. Muism is landfill quality.
Over time I have ploughed through what seems like hundreds of comments about the state of play at Muism. There isn't a problem with their products?
Yes, there is.
If I wasn't given the clothes by the Migi I wouldn't think of ever buying them in a million years. They aren't even good for free though. Keep giving me free clothes and I'll keep deleting them. Migi thinks she is real life designer and we know nothing about fashion. I hate Muism.
Muism has become unethical and dishonest. They run around with shady people and racists. Don't they think we all know and see what they are doing. No more Muism for me. I am disgusted with this.
I really appreciate inV covering topics like this. I sent inVmagazine enough info for your next big story. Get ready Muism. pukes
People are saying Ice is being investigated for theft of textures. Will just have to see.
2 sl designers cat fighting over a design not even theirs. This is way to much.
I'm shocked they are calling you faggots now. Whatever this blog does they have a way of coming in. Great job inV I commend you your doing an excellent job. That comment showed me I am never shopping at Muism again.
A fashion designer
Freedom of speech. You know when people start calling people names is another thing. inV has always has been professional and keep your name calling on you shit blog biotches.
Booooooooooooooo Muism. Racist Fucks.
I'm so tired hearing about the deceit coming out of Muism and the lame people. As been in fashion much longer than them have been approached by Ice about copy. I also contacted Ammon just now and will open up and chat logs.
Great prim work makes a great designer. Have you seen Muism shoes? Muism has terribe prim work. Only new people to sl would buy this crap. Anyone buying this at a mature age in sl are dumb.
I had a chuckle someone would even compare the #1 Redgrave to Muism. This just goes to show what some fools don't know and friendships would say.
Ice thinks we are friends and sends me stuff for free as well. I always say there nice but they really are bad. I wished he'd play like everyone else and not want to slice everyone's neck with an honest opinion.
Moby dick comments ans shorty after you get faggots. Its'snot that difficult from where that comment came from is it? Muism is a laugh for the price.
JAJAJAJA agaian Muism gets the shaft for dishonesty. I worked for them and I quit because of the games they play with other designers and people. Worst customer service in sl.
I don't have a problem with photsourcing but at least don't deny you do when asked. Migi has always made people believe it was original. She thought people would never know and thy could ride off of rl designers.
You won't see this fag in Muism. Really nice language coming out from the haters. We all know the haters.
For anyone surprised as I was at reading that Faggot remark, I can assure them it is a minority view, I haven't seen much homophobia at all in the game.
There is some, you are all adults and can make your own opinion about the moron using that kind of abuse to degrade the opinions of others.
As that remark came from Muism or a close supporter of Muism, they might like to consider gay men have a very large amount of disposable income, like to burn it on clothes and fashion accessories, and that we are rather prickly about gay-bashing.
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
President George W. Bush.
/me throws a shoe at Muism!
Blouses dont much care for and they all look the same to me, Shopping Cart Disco talking about the same blouse/Muism is well worth the trip (link at the bottom of the article here). Some very indepth chat. Not as jaw dropping and edgy as here (pistols at dawn anyone?), lol, but good stuff. A fantastic debate so... bravo Shopping Cart Disco and InV!!!
...What I find funny is that they both claim content theft (lol). Photosourcing is the discussion here. How can any designer cry content theft when the content was taken from someone in real world.
If Bianca photosources & Muism photsouces the same thing or vice versa how can they attack anyone else for photosourcing. I do agree it's not as creative photosourcing and probably easier but it's everyone's game to photsource the same thing.
So when someone copybots a photosoursed rl item is it really stealing?
The battle of who photosources first Rmfao. Then desingers who photosource should not be called designers!!!!
I noticed no one said anything much about Bianca, she fell through the floorboards in all this lol.
Bianca I don't know, but the boffins over on Shopping Cart Disco do know her, and have been talking about the methods she and Muism use to create clothing... so I am thinking the only thing Muism does better than her is the price tag. :P
I don't know much about Bianca, but I've heard that both she and Muism claim to be original designs. If this is a mistaken copy of the same RL blouse, how can either claim originality? We've had quite a bit posted here and quite a bit posted on SCD about the rep Muism has.
Rather than looking at the small picture, we can look at the big picture. Where do ethics lead in this situation (assuming the creators had the legal right to copy the design)? How much does it harm a rl designer to have works taken without permission and placed in a virtual world? Does anyone have the right to claim content theft when their design came from someone else originally?
If you use a Second Life logo on your items Linden Labs will jump on you. They protect their marketing gear and you can only use it with permission.
If you use the Coca-Cola logo on a t-shirt it is the same thing. The only difference - it is unlikely Coca-Cola will come into Second Life and hunt you down like a dirty thieving dawg.
Bianca and Muism are not creating original designs or hand drawn content, both are copying and photosourcing. They are not the only creators doing it, but they are the ones in the spotlight. This has been gone over in detail over on Shopping Cart Disco, but thats my humble way of explaining it!
Well that's a mind thought. If a sl designer rips a person in rl and then another sl designer rips that sl designer who ripped the rl designer originality is this considered theft. Does the photosource go to the first person to find the rl pictures. Actualy the new virtual game Nuriem coming out this summer has rl designers selling clothes. Maybe there will be laws soon to protect the rl designers from virtual thieves.
You can not upload an image of Mickey Mouse, and then say, Walt Disney doesn't own Mickey Mouse, I do.
And you can't take a photo of a trademarked blouse from Google, copy the design, photosource the folds, and claim the result is your own branded inhouse fashion design. Well you can, but that doesn't make Bianca or Muism fashion designers, it makes them human photocopiers.
Bianca claims she stole the blouse before Muism stole the blouse. As this blouse no doubt exists elsewhere in Sl, someone will have a claim that they stole the blouse years before Bianca or Muism.
The upshot of it is, Bianca and Muism are roleplaying as fashion designers. And that's OK, it's all fun, and they are unlikely to get slammed by the owners of the original trademarked designs anyway.
It's nowhere near as bad as using a British Government insignia. That could get someone into a bit of hot water. Yet inV doesn't mind that and promotes the hell out of it?
Interesting what causes you guys choose to fight!
As I said on SCD, the thing that irks me about this situation is how many people are ready to jump in and hang someone over the fact that they're photosourcing. Nevermind the fact that no one seems to know for sure whether or not the designers have been granted rights to use the underlying texture.
There is NOTHING illegal, immoral or unethical with photosourcing provided you have the right to do so.
If you don't care for textures that use photosourcing, then don't buy clothes from designers who photosource. Just don't claim that photosourcing automatically makes someone less creative, or worse, a thief, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
If done correctly (I'm not talking about slapping a photo on the SL mesh and calling it done), photosourcing a texture takes just as much talent as creating a texture from scratch.
As for this little debate about who was first to market with these blouses...who cares? If the use of the texture is being done legally (and I've yet to see proof that it isn't...just a lot of conjecture and innuendo) what difference does it make?
Again, as I said on SCD, at this point it's about the same as showing up to a function wearing the same outfit as someone else.
Now, if it's proven that one or both designers are using the underlying photo texture without the right to do so, that's another story.
Until then, I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about.
Some images are fine, and you will see them on children's toys etc., or they are not trademarked, or freely available to use, or you can buy a license to use them. Or, horror, you can make them!
Photosourcing, is it less creative, yes it is. It is a shortcut. As far as originality goes, there can be no claim to orginality if an item is peeled from another source. Is it really an issue and does anyone care? These two blouses have sparked some good debate. It's a big issue, and it won't be solved this weekend, and probably not until the first photosourcer in Sl ends up in court. Then we will all know, won't we. :]
There seems to be some women saying they acquired the Bianca blouse in 2007 over on SCD. Kinda deflates the claim that it's a horses ass on the pic. I was wondering where the tail went. Don't horses have tails?
"Photosourcing, is it less creative, yes it is. It is a shortcut. As far as originality goes, there can be no claim to orginality if an item is peeled from another source."
Just a minor point of contention here when making these kinds of blanket statements.
If you take a photo and slap it onto the SL mesh and call yourself done, then I agree with you. It's not creative and is definitely a shortcut.
If however you are using multiple photo sources, mixing and matching pieces of each, blending their colors and qualities together, getting shadows and highlights to line up, getting lighting and hues to look "correct" once assembled and basically turning it into a wholly new texture, then I'd argue that you ARE creating something original.
The process can be just as creatively challenging, more so in some ways, as creating a "hand-drawn" texture.
In my experience, I have yet to come across a single photo that I felt would be sufficient to accomplish the goal I had for any particular texture. If am photosourcing a texture, the process is a lengthy one and just as creative as building a texture from "scratch." It really just depends on the look you're going for as to what method you decide to use.
Now does it appear, based on the photos, that either designer labored over the texture for these blouses? Not really. Both seem to have followed a relatively straightforward process, and I'm certain people will (and have) debate which is executed better.
My point however is that making blanket statements like the one above is, IMO, shortsighted.
I was shopping at Muism and recived this from Ice.
Icemocolo Voom: (Saved Wed Dec 24 13:47:19 2008) are you friend with ammon? or inV? here i want to make it clear, we hate ammon and in V. and we do not support him, we are doing everything to fuck him up.
Just goes to show what ethics Muism runs on.
Chez makes a good point. I don't believe that all photosourcing is wrong and I do believe wearing photosourced items is a matter of preference. What is wrong is claiming to be original while photosourcing. This blatant lie (from what I hear on both designers' parts) shows how little they think of the intelligence of those who buy their products. Blogs like this and SDC are showing that consumers are more intelligent than dishonest creators would like to think.
Even if Bianca and Muism both paid, or both had permission to photosource an image of the blouse, it is still not their design.
Either of them squabbling about who ripped a RL design first... is just ridiculous. My two cents. :]
Chez, the definition of original can't be changed. It means... original. If you alloy a creation with borrowed extras, then it is not all your own work. That was my point. Otherwise I don't disagree with you!
"Chez, the definition of original can't be changed. It means... original. If you alloy a creation with borrowed extras, then it is not all your own work. That was my point. Otherwise I don't disagree with you!"
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point then.
From where I stand if you take several components and make something that is wholly and completely different so that a finished work exists that did not exist before and does not resemble the sources as such that someone could not determine where the components came from, then how can that not be original?
Of course this is purely an exercise in defining originality as I don't think it's hard to distinguish from these blouses that at least one of them (and possibly both) is not "original."
I was in Muism today looking around after reading and saw their shoes. Maybe you could post on this. shrugs
It's clear they cant do their own original work. I was curious so I thought I'd contact Migi and she would not reply about photosourcing.
I'm doing alot of blog jumping tonight and I have to say SCD and inV are very professional and well rounded.As far as this shirt I have it from 07. I don't see the problem if everyone wants to copy it. It was never sl designers in the first place. I do have a huge problem when Muism lying they dont photo source their clothing. If you want to be a designer and be treated as one learn to draw your own clothing. I will not support either these business. The clothing is not worth the money and flawed. I am also adding this to my blogs I admire and appreciate a team to stand up and make a difference.
I went to take a look at Muism hair tonight and was very disappointing. The hair is the worst hair in sl and the people there were all mostly newer people to sl. I guess there is a market to people who don't know better. I actually was frustrated by a man speaking in open chat...fishing it out of local chat
[2:21] Wamm Oh: she did have perfect boobs tho
[2:21] Wamm Oh: o yah
[2:21] Wamm Oh: SL
[2:21] Wamm Oh: lol
[2:21] Wamm Oh: "oh thats ok"
[2:21] Wamm Oh: nvm
[2:22] Wamm Oh: hm
[2:22] Wamm Oh: what?
[2:22] Wamm Oh: pretty kitty?
[2:22] Wamm Oh: sounds liek a gay strip club
[2:22] Wamm Oh: UH ME?
[2:22] Wamm Oh: how bout
[2:22] Wamm Oh: kev panther over here
[2:23] Wamm Oh: hes ugly?
[2:23] Wamm Oh: looks liek a little bitch to me
[2:23] Wamm Oh: yeah
[2:23] Wamm Oh: backstreet boy
[2:24] Wamm Oh: cum is salty
[2:24] Wamm Oh: like mah dick
Not a high end store in my opinion. I didn't see this top either. I wanted to fetch the price. I think I could live without Muism. Thanks inV.
If anyone's interested, the Foulon shirt has been part of several outfits, including one named equestrian. Its easy to see that jumping to conclusions based on prims is harmful. Particularly when many women myself included can say they acquired the shirt in 2007.
...laughing so hard. Yes we believe you you don't photosource (NOT). I have no problem with photosourcing but don't say you don't when you do. Also you should give credit to the rl designer like JFH does. It is only out of respect since you are profiting off or piggy backing off a rl designer. Question is if you can photosource a blouse why can't you do hair (lol). me laughs.
...oh and that yeti coat looks like a rug I shagged on in Aspen when I was on spring break in college. *giggles*
Ammon hahahahahahahaha.
NO more Muism for me either. I'll take my business to other shops that have better customer service and clothing.
I use to be a big Muism shopper but not really anymore. Everything looks so old now. Migi and Ice are both nice people but just don't understand there clothing isn't in fashion anymore. That prim jacket is over used now and way over priced.
I have to agree I lost all respect for Migi when I she was sending notecards out to blogs about clients. I will never step foot in a muism store.
Natalie Niven sure fucked over Muism. Migi Voom get back to working in the rice fields. http://costaretards.blogspot.com/
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